Talk:Borg/archive 2
Borg logo I'm pretty sure that the Borg logo was seen prior to in as a label on the side of one of the bulkheads on the Borg ship... anyway, the emblem had to have existed prior to 1993 in order for it to be included with the Borg action figure in 1992. ;) -- SmokeDetector47 17:06, 2005 Jan 19 (CET) :Yes, that's what I had in mind as well - if I remember correctly, you can see it in the scene where Locutus is watching the "antimatter firework". Someone should check the tape/DVD - I don't have that episode available at the moment. -- Cid Highwind 18:50, 2005 Jan 19 (CET) ::Well, to be fair it could have existed first as a graphic -- remember these things are created by the studio for marketing purposes also. Gene Roddenberry's Lincoln Enterprises created the Vulcan IDIC symbol before TOS Season 3, and then as an afterthought, found an episode to include it in, as a Vulcan symbol. The same could have been true of the Borg symbol -- created by the show's art department, and then shoehorned into the later episode -- if there are no canon contexts of the symbol being used for "real" Borg, the we would have to assume this symbol only applies to the "free Borg" of Hugh/Lore's camp -- this would make more sense anyway. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 23:38, 19 Jan 2005 (CET) I took a look at Part I and Part II, and you can see the emblem in the background on various pieces of the ship. Unfortunately, it's not very clear since the lighting isn't that great, but there are clear set pictures in TNG: The Continuing Mission on page 118. -- SmokeDetector47 02:09, 2005 Jan 21 (CET) Just for reference, the best glimpses occur at 32:37 and 32:52 in BOBWI, Oddly enough, sometimes the logo is shown sideways, with the points of the "claw" facing the right. -- SmokeDetector47 02:19, 2005 Jan 21 (CET) :::Hello, all--the Borg logo was actually first seen in "Q Who" while they are in the maturation room after seeing the babies. 19:48, March 14, 2006 ::::Then again, that ship was manned by the rogue Borg led by Lore and not the 'real' Borg. The only thing you know is that previously Hugh return to his ship and chaos broke out. There is no telling that the emblems were already in place, even that this was actually Hughs ship. As far as I am concerned the emblem is that of the rogue Borg and not the real Borg. The only emblems I've seen on a Borg vessel/construct were on the Borg Queen chamber doors. -- Q 20:15, 20 April 2006 (UTC) ::::: Actually, it is a symbol used by the Collective, if not perhaps the official logo. I didn't buy it either because I'd never seen it displayed prominently after hearing it was in BOBW, so I went to my recording of that episode and went slow motion through each scene taking place on board the cube in BOBW1 and found that it is visible once in a bulkhead when Picard is being brought to the hangar to speak with the Collective, it's also much more unambiguously and much more numerously visible when Shelby, Riker, Data, and Crusher go to rescue Picard and bring the cube out of warp. It can be seen numerous times during the destruction of the distribution nodes and when the drones are emerging from their alcoves it can be seen printed on various surfaces. Have not checked BOBW2, but can say with absolute certainty that it is there in BOBW1 if you look for it. Proof positive it was at least utilized for some unknown reason by the Collective. ::::: -edit: watched Q Who today for the first time in years: the Borg emblem is present in this episode as well. It can be seen in only one location, though it is placed very prominently when one knows to look for it. Moments before entering the Borg nursery (the place full of maturation chambers), when they pass by the last alcove, it can be clearly seen printed across the edge of the alcove; the camera pans right over it such that it fills a significant percentage of the screen for a moment. However, like the instances of BOBW, it is dark printed upon dark, and is easy to ignore on a first viewing. ::::::Yep, it's seen in for the first time, just like Borg writing, red on a black background. Two adjoining Borg logos can be seen in the nursery scene, as was mentioned before, though they are oriented vertically. They can be seen when the away team enters the nursery and also very clear when Data scans the bulkhead with a tricorder and realizes that the ship is regenerating. The logo was then seen in and "Part II", sometimes oriented horizontally. It was not seen in and turned up again in and , turned upside down for all appearances in these two episodes, maybe a characteristic of the renegade Borg. It was also seen on large banners in these two episodes, coloured white, red and black. After that appearance, the logo never appeared on board of a Borg vessel again, not in and also not in any Borg-related VOY episode. It was just seen one more time, as a tiny Borg logo on a viewscreen aboard 's sickbay in . --Jörg 15:57, 23 January 2007 (UTC) :::::::Is this emblem upside down? In Descent the banners in the Borg building show it the other way up. ::::::::Those flags in "Descent" were the most prominent appearance of the logo though... shouldn't we consider it the "correct orientation" if there is no statement anywhere that the specific intention was to use it in reverse to symbolize being "anti-collective" etc. --Pseudohuman 00:46, 18 July 2008 (UTC) ::::::Here's a screenshot from for those who still doubt: http://img269.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap5426483.png/ MrEvers 02:22, September 22, 2009 (UTC) Forum:Borg Designations I am curious about Borg Designations. Is it something to do with their Hierarchy or chain of command? -- 07:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC) :No, the borg do not have a chain of command, other than the queen. The designations are only to differentiate between them. -- Jaz talk 00:29, 27 September 2006 (UTC) ::The Borg are beyond the concept of a chain of command. Whatever the group wills, happens, and the appendages go about doing it. Even the Queen, while having the tacit appearance of being in "command", seems more of an organ of the collective than a creator or leader of it... especially given that she is apparently readily replaceable. Apparently via some sort of "Royal Jelly Applet". Given the hive structure of the Borg, hierarchical command is unnecessary. Maybe they are like a peer network like the internet, where the Borg Queen is sort of like an InterNIC name server that helps show things how to connect and verifies things, but an actual "chain of command" beyond that singular traffic cop isn't necessary to accomplish anything. --JCoyote 22:57, 27 September 2006 (UTC) :::The Borg hive mind seams to operate quite close to spanning tree protocol, where the network as a whole designates one "root" to bring about consciousness (in the case of the network, only about routs. The Borg obviously operate on a much higher level). This means that there is no need for rank and title beyond Queen. And like the STP, when the root is lost, another is simply designated. --Sdamon 11:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC) ::::That makes me wonder if there is/can be 2 queens. If there is, do they ever do a 'personnel' transfer? say if 7 of 9 were to be transferred from a cube to a unimatrix, would her designation change? Aren't drones hardwired to do a specific job?– Farfallen 11:34, 28 September 2007 (UTC) :::::I think the Borg use designations to not only differentiate from one another, but also describes a job or position in the Collective, of sorts. If a Borg's job changes, then I would think they would have their designation changed. Lordgeorge16 13:02, 30 July 2009 (UTC) Forum:What number system do the Borg use? Do the Borg use binary, a base-ten system as is common amongst the Federation, or a different system? -- CameoAppearance 06:50, 6 October 2006 (UTC) :Well, it's at least base 10. Seven of Nine, and Species 8472, etc. Alhough, it could be universal translatored. There is no specified answer to that question. --Bp 07:08, 6 October 2006 (UTC) ::Base 2. I have no conformation, but i believe the Borg use binary for data, and therefor, they use base 2 for numbers, letters, and even thought.--Sdamon 05:00, 17 October 2006 (PDT) :::Then explain 7''' of '''9. It isn't 111 of 1001. --OuroborosCobra talk 12:52, 17 October 2006 (UTC) ::01101100011010010110101101100101001000000111010001101000011010010111001100111111 Though...you can read and speak that more easily as "Like This?". Or does everyone encountered on a starship speak english? --Sdamon 12:57, 17 October 2006 (UTC) ::Also, the question "What number system do the Borg use?" has a hidden implications. The implications changes the question to read "What number system do the Borg use with each other?" They dont talk, they communicate through technological means. therefore, from all we know on screen, they ultimately use binary. --Sdamon 13:18, 17 October 2006 (UTC) :::There's nothing to prove that on screen. We know that the Bynars use Binary code, sure, but that doesn't mean the Borg do. Whenever any Borg speaks, it's in English. And their written alphabet doesn't imply binary, or anything else either, so the question what number system the Borg use, with other species or amongst their own kind, cannot be answered, everything else would be speculation. --Jörg 13:24, 17 October 2006 (UTC) ::Ahh, but the Bynars speak binary so to speak... they have adopted a vocalization of binary code as a language. The Borg communicate through radio/subspace communication. Its implied in the series that this operates on a similar principal of wireless communications today. A wave is sent with periods of high and low strength, which is the representation of binary code. And yes, everything IS speculation. --Sdamon 14:04, 17 October 2006 (UTC) :::Well, if you are referring to radio/subspace communication, then basically everybody communicates by means of binary. In addition to that, Borg also communicate vocally and have their own written language as well. Just like nearly everybody else, actually. --Jörg 14:17, 17 October 2006 (UTC) ::From your post i actually realized a better answer than any one given. They don't use any SINGLE numbering system at all. They use all of them. The alphanumeric code is the representation of it. And i do retract many of my early arguments. --Sdamon 20:35, 17 October 2006 (UTC) The Borg Use alphanumeric code, right? --User:Alexlyoko13 Forum:The name Borg The name "Borg", does anyone know where it came from? In what year did it first appear? -- :most probably short for "cyborg"--Bravomike 12:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC) ::It was first used in . --OuroborosCobra talk 15:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC) ::: The name "Borg" most likely was created by the Borg because of their advances in cyborg technology, although both words sound alike. Captain Jon 00:30, 28 January 2007 (UTC) ::::Apropos of nothing, I once heard a fan at an late 80s/early 90s convention ask some Trek rep if the name "Borg" was somehow a reference to failed Reagan-era Supreme Court nominee . I remember that the Trek rep person smiled in surprise (of all the Trek questions he'd ever been asked, he probably never heard that one before) before demurring and saying the name came from the word "cyborg." --TommyRaiko 15:45, 28 January 2007 (UTC) :::It's much more appropriate to the Borg themselves when you consider the fact that a "cyborg" in the technical, scientific sense, is not just an organism with machine parts, but is rather an organism which is " " in the technical, scientific sense - namely, one which is reversibly integrated into a system of interconnected, differentially interacting components, and which itself is reversibly composed of a system of interconnected, differentially interacting components. Of course, as we all know, the Borg plug into their alcoves via their machine elements and thereby marge both metabolically and cognitively with their ship and with each other - they are cyborgs in a true sense. 23:08, 12 August 2007 (UTC) Differences Has anyone ever written, or seen an article written, regarding why the Borg look "white" between 2365 and 2370, compared to their "corpse grey-green" look prior and since? . :All to do with the amount of vegetables they eat. They're into the later stages of scurvy now. But as a proper answer... no. Never seen anything, my guess is simply that the makeup changed, along with the filming quality. -- Sulfur 21:39, 8 February 2007 (UTC) ::to say nothing of the spandex of the same era which yielded later to armor. :::I've done some research on that myself. See my userpage for my theory on the differences. Patricius Augustus 16:18, 15 December 2008 (UTC) ::::To paraphrase Gene Roddenberry, "those were Northern Borg". --TribbleFurSuit 19:12, 15 December 2008 (UTC) Borg-inspired? I think it might be appropriate to have a section detailing all the fictional entities outside of the Star Trek universe that were no doubt inspired by the ideas the Borg presented (assimilation of outside advantages, hive-minded unification)...there are too many to count...the Zerg stand out, but there are many others (the Slivers from Magic, the Tyranid from Warhammer 40k, the Strogg from Quake) :We would need actual proof rather than speculation. For example the Zerg and pretty much all of StarCraft is known to have been inspired by Warhammer 40K (Zerg being inspired by the Tyranids). Warhammer 40K (including the Tyranids) first came out in 1987, two years before and the Borg first aired. Therefore, they could not have been inspired by the Borg. --OuroborosCobra talk 03:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC) V'Ger as the Borg Origin I kind of like that idea. Ilia does seem to resemble the Borg Queen, in some way. then again, 1000s of years do take a toll on you. :Well there are interesting parallels, both deal with a similar theme of the technological transcendence of respective limitations. However, correlation does not imply causation, and we should probably stick to the available evidence. The Borg Queen claims that the Borg were once like humanity, she says, "... flawed and weak." But, she says, they gradually grew to include synthetic parts in their quest to perfect themselves. Guinan says that the Borg have been evolving for thousands of centuries (but this is perhaps less reliable, not coming from the Borg themselves). We really don't know how it happened, but I tend to buy the uncomplicated theory that they were just a race of humanoids who decided that they could do better. This also fits in with Maurice Hurley's running theme throughout Q Who of the Borg being a glimpse of humanity's possible future - when you look at the dialogue of that episode, at the way Q talks to Picard and Riker in Ten Forward, for instance, it is all a reference to the idea of humanity advancing too quickly and not being prepared to handle the "wonders more incredible than you could possibly imagine, and terrors to freeze your soul." At the end of the episode, Guinan even mentions that one day humanity might be ready for a stable relationship with the Borg, a parallel with the idea that humanity might some day be ready for technological transcendence, but just not now (this very idea was completely abandoned by later writers who, after I, Borg, considered them as a metaphor for cults and other totalitarian ideologies rather than technological evolution). I think, given what we are presented with, and not presuming what we are not, it is best to just take the Borg and their origins at face value (enhanced humanoids in pursuit of constant improvement). 22:53, 12 August 2007 (UTC) Baby Borgs Since the Borg added lifeforms to their Collective via assimilation, there was no need for procreation, although they apparently did so nevertheless, as evidenced by the neonatal drones discovered by Federation crewmembers and the fact that the Borg had access to extremely sophisticated abiogenic reproductive techniques. ( ; ) No differentiation was made between children and adults when assimilating a race. ( ) Unlike non-Borg species, these youths did not need to go to school to obtain knowledge. The moment they joined the Collective they could access its entire memory. However, when they were too young they were placed in maturation chambers where they remained for up to seventeen cycles before they would serve the Borg Collective. ( ) The "evidence" given here for the Borg's procreation seems to be that the Enterprise found a nursery aboard the cube in "Q Who." Given what we now know about the Borg, though, it's entirely possible that the infants in this nursery were recently captured in an assimilation mission. (We know the Borg assimilate infants from "Collective") There is little cause to speculate that they were the result of sexual reproduction among drones. The Borg no doubt could create a fetus through any number of means, but Seven of Nine plainly states in "Drone" that (as of 2375) they do not. I assume the "seventeen cycles" figure is based on a reference to Seven's experience in a maturation chamber. I don't think that can be used to make a generalization about the length of time all juvenile drones spend in maturation chambers. This almost certainly varies according to the age of the assimilated child and its species. --Jimsmith 01:34, 18 May 2007 (UTC) :Just think, they let those babies get blown up in The Best of Both Worlds. Guess they just forgot they had a nursery. Vortaborg 05:13, 27 June 2009 (UTC) ::I think the "Borg nursery" used in the TNG Era was just an early form of the Borg Maturation Chambers used in the Voyager Era, and shows that the Borg can assimilate infants, but cannot procreate. Lordgeorge16 13:10, 30 July 2009 (UTC) ::: I think it would be more accurate to claim they "don't" procreate rather than they "cannot" as it would be speculative as well to assume they do not posses the ability. But I agree the nursery would be an extension of "maturation chambers" that we've come to know in VOY. Cygnis 21:10, 4 August 2009 (UTC) ::::On STV episode 5x02, the Dock´s mobile emitter is infected with nanodes from 7/9 body during mixup in transport. Infected nanodes quickly adapt, making the emitter able to assimiliate science terminal and adabt its components to become maturing chamber. Inspecting science officer is killed while inspecting this chamber and hes DNA is used to make a advanced Borg Drone (and the mobile adapter adapts to function as neural proccessor node). Now this explains 2 things: 1. The borg has genetical understanding of basics, understandings of a adult and so on that the chamber has teached it, making it fully funktional but unassigned to any task, wich it must be teached through adaptation. Because not all borg an handle any task given (too much data) it must be given information and assignment to the task it will do. 2. This also gives information, is that the babies are not procreated, but maybe a variates of mixing assimiliated genes together to form borgs, however, the borg prefer to assimiliate technology rather than create technology, they dont do genetically advanced drones (they see technology is better than biological improvement) thus they prefer to assimiliate to add numbers. --JHawx 12:28, November 24, 2009 (UTC) :::::As an aside, it really helps to note which episode. Not just saying "the episode". -- sulfur 12:58, November 24, 2009 (UTC) :::::: Added after looking it up, my numeric memory aint what it used to be (s5ep02) --JHawx 02:05, November 25, 2009 (UTC) Confirmed by 7/9´s own testimony in STV6x16 with talking to Janeway: Borg maturing chambers reorganize and teach the borg ways, protocols and knowledge to the drone inside of it, removing irrelevant memory and preparing brain to receve data. 7/9 was placed inside of the maturing chamber for 5 years after being assimiliated and her neural pathways were "re-aligned" --JHawx 02:41, November 25, 2009 (UTC) Borg queen Wolf 359 From the Article:'The Borg Queen (Star Trek: First Contact) also later claimed to be present at the Battle of Wolf 359, despite the fact that she acknowledged the destruction of that ship and all the Borg on it.' The borg queen is present at all the battles and events, all the minds in the borg hive are one, so no matter how far away she was physically, she was there anyway. :She claimed to physically be there. We even saw her in the flashbacks with Picard. In this case, the hive mind thing doesn't fly. Besides, just because she has a mental link with her drones, it does not make her "there", no more than I am in New Jersey if I call my grandparents on the phone while I sit here in Massachusetts. --OuroborosCobra talk 04:06, 24 May 2007 (UTC) ::It's a cryptic reference, although regarding her 'explanation' in telling Picard that he has become small and thinks three dimensionally, while I personally find it apocryphal that she was referring to anything to do with hyperspace or time travel, I personally find it much more plausible, given the context of the conversation and Picard's chain of reasoning (to which she clearly objects and makes mocking reflection), that she is referring to his stunted (relative to Borg standards) capacity for lateral thought. It would seem to me that she is not speaking literally in a physical sense, but rather literally in a cognitive sense, that she is telling Picard he has lost the ability to see the obviousness (of what, this too is unclear). I would have to concur with the omnipresence hypothesis - the queen is always there, she "is the Collective" according to her own admission. Picard's recollection of her being "physically" there is no more valid in an positionally massive sense than would be his recollection of hearing her "voice" in his head. The voices of the Collective do not exist as sound waves traveling through the air and entering a drone's "ear", but they do exist as subspace signals. The queen may not have been physically "there" any more than the voices of the Collective carry through the air as a sequence of kinetic waves traveling through a gas, but this in no way stops Picard from remembering her there. As to the question of whether you are "there" in New Jersey (or anywhere, this is all hypothetical) during a telephone call, it's not as black and white as that. There is serious philosophical research regarding these very issues (if you give everybody in China a computer and put them all on a radio network and program all the computers to act like brain cells, does China become a conscious entity?) -- plus, the queen never claims to have been "physically" there, Picard implies it and the queen goes on as I've said before, telling him that he has become small and three-dimensional in his thinking. :That is all speculation, though. The facts are that we SEE her in a flashback, and the dialogue from Picard specifically states "you were on that ship", it does not leave room for the metaphysical. --OuroborosCobra talk 12:45, 25 May 2007 (UTC) ::maybe all members of species 125 look(ed) alike Lt.Lovett 21:56, 8 December 2008 (UTC) :::Plausible too... I would have gone into something like, "If you've seen one Borg queen, you've seen them all." Perhaps each queen is a copy of their predecessor (and I don't mean cloning in the physical sense, more like cloning a hard drive). Think Trill, how the collective memories carries on from one host to another via the symbiont. The Borg may have back-up queens that they load all relevant data of the predecessor to keep things as streamlined and stable as possible. Passing on the cognitive history (to include the point of view)... So in that sense, she was there? :::They have to be able to cope with the loss of a queen in some fashion. We all know it has happened enough in Star Trek. Just a guess. Cygnis 17:18, 7 July 2009 (UTC) : your missing the point here, all borg are assimiliated and stripped from personality, they are "Unified" to look similar in all aspects, genders aside. and for the comment that all borg are small chested? what about 7/9?. --JHawx 02:30, November 25, 2009 (UTC) Fear "They were the most dangerous, most feared race in the galaxy." I think that title should go to species 8472 rather then the borg.– 20:29, 15 July 2007 (UTC) ::ehh... no... Nobody except the Borg and the Voyager crew new about how dangerous the 8472 was. (the hirogen hunted an alone member of the species and they showed that they didn't fear it). But the Borg was feared of everybody. How they show no mercy and either assimilate or kill you, your weapons are useless and etc. The Borg was also known by the entire delta quadrant, and at least two major galactic powers in the rest of the universe (UFP in alpha and beta quadrant, klingon empire in beta quadrant). we can also assume that the Romulans and cardassians knew about them as they would know why the federation had lost so many ships as they did in the battle of wolf 359 (or something). --Örlogskapten 21:24, 15 July 2007 (UTC) Destruction In the Voyager series finale the Queen, unicomplex, and transwarp network were destroyed and a "neurolytic pathogen" spread throughout the collective. Were the Borg destroyed or simply defeated? : That is a matter for discussion. But until we get to know more, we can only speculate. --Örlogskapten 07:06, 3 August 2007 (UTC) ::You're telling me nobody has ever asked this at a scifi convention or something? : No, I'm telling you that we don't have an explanation that is canon. and no matter what people say or write in a novel, the only real canon is the tv-series and movies. and from there, we don't have an explanation. -- Örlogskapten... My channel... 12:35, 16 August 2007 (UTC) Did they actually say in Endgame that the pathogen spread all through the collective? And not just the unicomplex and queen? Forum:Romulan and Klingon contact with the Borg What kind of contact did the Romulan's have with the Borg. The Hansens said they heard rumors of them from the Beta Quadrant which is where the Romulans and Klingons are from so i'm curious as to what contact there was. Did the Romulans get in fights with the Borg, i think this definitly happened because there were various assimilated Romulans throughout Star Trek, Did the Borg mostly win those battles or did the Romulans? Thats what i think this page should be about. A similar Klingon page would be informative too. - :I do not know of any Klingon contact (with the exception of the fact we know that some Klingons were assimilated at some point), but Romulan outposts were attacked by the Borg at the same time as Federation outposts in 2364, though neither side knew who was attacking them at the time. That is what spurred the Romulans into renewed contact with their neighbors following their period of isolation after the Tomed Incident. Watch for more. --OuroborosCobra talk 22:29, 23 August 2007 (UTC) :: That info about Romulan contact has been discussed offscreen and out-of-world by the writer of and , but it's not possible to discern what you just described from onscreen evidence. 01:59, 24 August 2007 (UTC) :Actually, there is on screen evidence from Q Who: ::WORF: "It is as though some great force just scooped all machine elements off the face of the planet." ::DATA: "It is '''identical to what happened to the outposts along the Neutral Zone'." :There is your confirmation. --OuroborosCobra talk 04:25, 24 August 2007 (UTC) :: Not to mention the assimilated Romulans (Orum) and Klingons (Korok). --Alan 03:59, 21 March 2008 (UTC) :You would think that the Borg would consider the Cloaking device as a viable "technological distinctiveness'Cygnis 17:24, 7 July 2009 (UTC) So how do the Borg not be killed by guns? Was there ever any explanation for how the Borg become immune to weapons once they have been killed by them? If you shot one with a handgun, would their skin suddenly become bulletproof? Thanks! Lieutenant Gerard 19:39, 7 September 2007 (UTC) :They have personal forcefields. --OuroborosCobra talk 19:59, 7 September 2007 (UTC) ::Valid point, and true, but this also clashes with ST:First Contact. The shields may protect them from energy discharges only, and not physical objects (i.e. bullets) or you would also be unable to engage in hand to hand combat. JeffreyAlpha172 00:57, 18 July 2008 (UTC) :::Judging from the Best of Both Worlds scene where Worf attempts hand to hand assault on Locutus and runs into the forcefield around Locutus, it would appear that the shield can protect against physical objects too. I have assumed the Borg were simply not prepared for the bullets in the FC holodeck scene and didn't have their shields adjusted properly. --Pseudohuman 13:01, 18 July 2008 (UTC) :::: Besides, forcefield can be also turned to magnetic reflector, when the metallic object can be repelled or stopped in the field. Besides, forcefields can be either electric or solid, thats how they stop those quantium torbedos from hitting the hull, making it explode on FF instead of the hull, and energy released by the explosion is aborbed across the field. --JHawx 01:32, November 24, 2009 (UTC) Forum:Borg Species Does anyone know what Species was Species 001? i assume that would either be the original Borg spicies or the first species the Borg assimilated, but have found nothing on it. September 17, 2007 :See Borg species designations for everything we know. --OuroborosCobra talk 04:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC) ::As for the original Borg species or the first-ever assimilant, try Borg history. Again: there's virtually nothing that has appeared onscreen that's not already represented there, so, chances are you already know as much as we do. 00:26, 19 September 2007 (UTC) Forum:Borg ship purposes OK, another Borg question. What are the purposes of the different borg ships? Sphere vs. Cube. Wasnt there another type or 2? do we 'know' there classifications of these vessels other then their geometric shape? – Farfallen 03:39, 25 September 2007 (UTC) :Most of the information we have can be found at Borg starship classes, or the articles linked there. --OuroborosCobra talk 03:42, 25 September 2007 (UTC) Forum:Origin of the borg I have just gotten into the sagas and have watched the series for a while. My question is what is the orgin of the borg? How did they come to be what they are now? Were they a species of humanoids who were infected then had no choice but to continue infecting everyone? ::If you are looking for a canon answer, there isn't one, as the subject has never come up. Because of that, any answer would be pure speculation. I think there are non-canon novels which provide insights into how the Borg came about, though I don't know what they are off the top of my head.--31dot 20:40, 24 January 2008 (UTC) :::Some think that V'ger was what created the borg after going through a wormhole/black hole/ thingy and as it became more intelegent it created servents to help with it's quest for knowledge. :::: While there is no canon referance to any Borg History, it's been suggested by Trekkers that it's a version of Windows, untried, and crashed several times. Past Tense? Why is the opening paragraph of the article written in the past tense? :See: MA:POV --Alan 04:19, 17 June 2008 (UTC) Top Image I don't think the image of the Borg "lasers" coming from their eye pieces is really the best one to display at the top of the page. Don't get me wrong, it's a good image, but I think it should be moved further down the page, and an image of a Borg drone moved to the top, maybe. A clear image of a drone fits with the title of the article. What does everyone else think? TrekFan 13:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC) :I agree. We should have a closeup image of a drone to illustrate the article. The current one, while cool, doesn't quickly show a reader what the borg look like.– Cleanse 00:24, 20 June 2008 (UTC) ::I'm going to toss in here and say that I disagree. The point of that scene in the movie was supposed to be one evocative of the fear of what the Borg are, and I think the image does that well here. This isn't an article about Borg drones, it is an article about the Borg as a "race". --OuroborosCobra talk 00:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC) ::I'm kinda agreeing with Cobra on this one. I will say that it could be a touch bigger, but I do feel that the picture works. ----[[User:Mainphramephreak| '''Willie']][[User Talk:Mainphramephreak| LLAP]] 00:54, 20 June 2008 (UTC) :Yeah, my main problem is that the image comes up as too small and indistinct due to it being a widescreen shot. It doesn't really grab the eye or show the horror of the Borg; it just looks like a few really far away guys playing with laser pointers :-p. :As such, I think it should either be bigger as Willie suggested (such as by incorporating it into a sidebar), or replaced with something that shows the horror of the Borg much more forcefully (like someone being assimilated).– Cleanse 00:58, 20 June 2008 (UTC) ::Image:Assimilationtubule.jpg might be a good shot, unless we can improve the current one. I definitely agree that it is too small and indistinct right now, I just don't want some general drone, or something like File:Holo Borg, Endgame.jpg. --OuroborosCobra talk 01:03, 20 June 2008 (UTC) ::::Image:Borg Klingon Closeup.jpg I like this one. Otherwise yeah, the Assimilationtubule.jpg version. – Morder 01:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC) I think Image:Borg Klingon Closeup.jpg is a good image to go at the top. TrekFan 22:23, 22 June 2008 (UTC) Borg Hail Borg Hail: :"...we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own..." I thought it went: :"...your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own..." Anyone? I could be wrong but I am pretty sure it went "your..will be added" as opposed to "we will add"? TrekFan 22:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC) :It was the former. :) – Morder 22:23, 23 June 2008 (UTC) ::Assimilation has a list of hails, according to which its "we will add". – Cleanse 04:42, 24 June 2008 (UTC) ::The last hail I remember hearing (being the newest one) was "We are the Borg, you will be assimilated, your biological and technological distinctivness will be added to our own, resistance is futile" JeffreyAlpha172 00:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC) *It actually varied according to the writers' whims. Sochwa 14:34, 19 February 2009 (UTC) Timeline???? How are the borg created by V'ger?? the voyager probe was made in 1970's and The borg apparently existed in 1400's 22:43, 13 July 2008 (UTC) :According to canon, the Borg aren't created by V'Ger. --OuroborosCobra talk 22:44, 13 July 2008 (UTC) ::--- On episode STV 6x07, survivor of the cryo cell egg timer gone bad, states that after 900 years of sleep (in conversation with 7/9) "in theyr century the borg only had handfull of planetary systems". (time index 24:10) At that current episode, they dont make a log entry telling date, (intentional or not) i cannot say or even estimate when borgs had 3-5 planets (alien has 5 fingers). But still that makes borg civilisation at least 900 years old. but as we know from memory alpha, the voyager flew in delta quatrant during 2371 to 2378 that makes borg having couple of planets during year of 1471 to 1478, give or take a decade... That means borgs had had time to take planets even then, and predates even that testimony --JHawx 01:05, November 24, 2009 (UTC) :Wow you made that about as hard as possible to read. Please realize that handful is a figure of speech, and doesn't even necessarily refer to "fingers." --OuroborosCobra talk 01:13, November 24, 2009 (UTC) ::Well how technical you want to get? handfull = more than couple, almost as much as fistfull, less than armfull or cupfull? i just trying to measured his hands volume ^^ ::And if there must be more than 2 in the hand, that shapes the planets size on the hand, making minimum of 3 that can be fit on the hand, not knowing the ball size, it can be even more... but as you said, its only a figure of speach, but additive meaning to the sentence is "just a few". --JHawx 01:45, November 24, 2009 (UTC) :::A handful could also represent the amount of small objects one could fit in one's hand. For instance, a handful of m&ms could be around 20 or so depending on the size of your hand. Regardless the initial point that the Borg have been around for about 900 years does seem to fit the available data it doesn't matter how many systems we actually have. — Morder (talk) 02:00, November 24, 2009 (UTC) ::ok ok, but the fact was gained from the aliens testimony, borg were around at least 900 years ago, they got planetary systems assimiliated even back then--JHawx 08:55, November 24, 2009 (UTC) ::::It's 892 years ago, and the quote is: "...the Borg had only assimilated a handful of systems...", which does prove that a version of the collective was active 892 years ago, and had spread beyond a few systems. (Speculation follows) Maybe about the size of the Coalition of Planets or the very early Federation. Seven's statement about the Borg's records being fragmented at that time makes it seem that at the very least there hasn't been an unbroken chain of record keeping since then, or that the Borg records were destroyed for some reason. - Archduk3:talk 10:35, November 24, 2009 (UTC) ::I must remind that the statement comes from alien, not 7/9, thus the statement is irrelevant to the fragmentation of history data of the Borg, but you did verify the testimony. thanx for that... But we can further state that those planets werent assimiliated in small perioid of time, othervice other species would have taken action against the Borg as galactic threat... but thats only speculation and not admissable as proof. --JHawx 11:58, November 24, 2009 (UTC) Removed Removed by TribbleFurSuit: :One theory states they originated in the 2270s when the first officer of the U.S.S. Enterprise 1701, Captain Decker,(Star Trek:The Motion Picture) merged with the probe V'ger and thus the entire A.I. based civilization which centered around V'ger. Kirk and Spock were quoted as saying: "Spock, did we just see the beginning of a new life form?" "Yes, captain. We witnessed a birth. Possibly a next step in our evolution." Reasoning? Not canon, they're shown to exist in the time of Enterprise. -- Sulfur 00:54, 8 October 2008 (UTC) : Very true.. As far as I know Archer did meet a couple of borg when galavanting around in the NX-01, and that was even before UFP was founded. --The Picard 18:40, 17 February 2009 (UTC) ::Two words : Time travel Sochwa 14:36, 19 February 2009 (UTC) :::(A) that's four words. (B) the V'GER thing is still not canon even if Borg did timetravel to Archer's time instead of natively existing there - which is also still not canon. --TribbleFurSuit 20:22, 19 February 2009 (UTC) ::::"Time Travel" is only two words. --OuroborosCobra talk 20:33, 19 February 2009 (UTC) :::There were two other words too. --TribbleFurSuit 02:36, 20 February 2009 (UTC) ::::No, there weren't. The saying "# words" is a standard figure of speech in the English language, and it refers to a count starting after the phrase. Meaning the only counted words are those after the colon, in this case "time travel." That is two. Just as in "The Graduate": :::::Mr. McGuire: I want to say one word to you. Just one word. :::::Benjamin: Yes, sir. :::::Mr. McGuire: Are you listening? :::::Benjamin: Yes, I am. :::::Mr. McGuire: Plastics. ::::That is still one word, "plastics," not 15 words. --OuroborosCobra talk 03:28, 20 February 2009 (UTC) Assimilation technique Can one say that the reasons for the difference in assimilation technique in TNG and Voyager could be because of the Borg assimilating a race with great scientific knowledge within nanotechnology and nanites? I would atleast give that as a reason why the Borg was so much more efficient in assimilating their victims in Voyager and ST: First Contact than they were in TNG (where Picard was assimilated piecemeal, by having his body implanted with borg-implants a piece at a time, being fully assimilated first in the second episode of "The best of both worlds"). --The Picard 18:37, 17 February 2009 (UTC) ::Do we know that there actually is a difference? Picard's initial assimilation happens off screen in TNG. He did have more implants physically attached after we first see him as Locutus, but that isn't necissarily inconsistent with later depictions. At least in First Contact the injection of nanoprobes is only the first step. In one scene of the movie there are newly assimilated crew members lined up to receive implants in much the same way we saw with Locutus. Four of Thirteen 07:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC) ::: As far as i know, there are 2 different mechanisms in assimiliation, 1s. the nanites, wich itrude the body and make adjustments to it, taking over the immunity system and build nanite nodes within the body, using nutrients from the body itself, and taking over the essential bodily funktions like delivering oxygen to organic parts. 2nd step is implementing of artificial limbs and augmentations to the body, wich co-operates on the 1st step to combine the 2 technologies (armor plating is connected to the nerv clusters, and thus to the nodes). As for arquement with locustus, modifications were minimal and identity of the picard was partially preserved, thus most of the humanity was presered on picard and no amputation and replacement of extremeties were done. This information was collected from all of the series and is general. --JHawx 12:10, November 24, 2009 (UTC) Why are they called a "pseudo-race"? Why are they called a "pseudo-race"? They are a collective of lifeforms spanning multiple quadrants of the galaxy,calling them a race of any sort,diminishes and ineffectively describes them. Sochwa 14:31, 19 February 2009 (UTC) :...aaaaaand, so, we don't call them a race, but a pseudo-race. "Pseudo" means "false". It's actually a more effective term than "pseudo-species". --TribbleFurSuit 20:18, 19 February 2009 (UTC) :: So how do we classify Romulans? theyr origin is Vulcan, yet they are not calssified as sub species? (they evolved different way during time) Theres at least 3 subspecies of human (white- dark- and asian) yet theyr all classified as human, yet we dont call em sub-species, were the genetically advanced humans sub-humans? As far as i can see it, Borg is separate specie adapted from several other species via assimiliation. Assimiliation itself gives meaning to the species as its meaning means turning other biological and technological advancement to borg. Its still conversion, where original is turned to other. that other is simply, Borg. --JHawx 02:57, November 25, 2009 (UTC) Only males? Why does Borg have only male drones? Are all women in stasis waiting to become Queens or are they somewhere deep in Borg space giving birth to children? (nevermind that, I just read that Borg do not procreate) Afaik, Seven was the only female drone (or the only one who actually had tits).--Pavel Jackoff 21:09, 15 April 2009 (UTC) :Mezoti and the drone who kidnapped Picard, just to point out a few. Their costume makes them appear rather gender neutral as drones. Except for Seven. --OuroborosCobra talk 21:11, 15 April 2009 (UTC) ::Sidenote from observations: there are many female drones, but theyr costume does make em look alike, thats maybe partially because the "unification" to the hive, making everybody look similar, joined and assimiliated. On STV ep 7x01, Tuvoc is also assimiliated and has the same skintone as the others. It does appear all borgs are made to look "unisex" (not gonna joke about cyber... cyborgsex)--JHawx 13:25, November 26, 2009 (UTC) :Small tits indeed (Picard's drone) ^^ --Pavel Jackoff 21:29, 15 April 2009 (UTC) ::A female drone passes the crew on board the Cube during the initial encounter in Q Who. This is the first instance of the "they ignore you if you're not interesting" rule, or rather, the first instance in which it was mentioned by any of the cast. The Borg are gender neutral, however, or at least were initially meant to be so, as Q mentions during the first encounter with the drone during that episode. The insignia If I remember right, that insignia was only the insignia of the "Lore Borg", not the insignia of the entire collective. If you think about it, the collective doesn't NEED an insignia. Wratched 19:41, 10 May 2009 (UTC) :See Borg logo above; it was seen before .– Cleanse 01:57, 11 May 2009 (UTC Isn't the this the borg insignia? http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/other/borg-symbol.jpg, User:Alexlyoko13 quantum reality Borg In this reality did the Borg win the Battle of Wolf 359?.The Borg went on to conquer the Federation after the Battle of Wolf 359.-- 14:06, 24 May 2009 (UTC) : If by "this" you mean "this", because that's the only one we know of. --Alan 14:35, 24 May 2009 (UTC) Borg Armor & Metals What, exactly are the Borg made of, what materials and such. Mainly their ship hulls, but it would be nice to know what those funky robotic suits are made of as well. All you ever hear in the episodes, as far as I know, is "I cannot identify this material Captain!" ~~Rakata Ba'al~~ :They're made of fantasium. It was never stated in canon though. — Morder (talk) 07:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC) ::Inorrect: Tritanium alloy, source: STV: 7x25-26, 7/9 stating that "the mass amount of Tritanium alloys suggests at least 47 borg ships hiding inside the nebula" --JHawx 17:58, November 29, 2009 (UTC) :::Do you mean ?--31dot 18:39, November 29, 2009 (UTC) ::Confirmed, but you double edited me when i tried to link the episode --JHawx 20:48, November 29, 2009 (UTC) Mirror Universe Borg Has there been anything concerning the Borg in the Mirror Universe? 06:01, November 26, 2009 (UTC) :No. — Morder (talk) 06:43, November 26, 2009 (UTC) Planning to add information on ship section Currently im planning to edit or add a section to borg ship classes, or edit the title to "Spacecraft and infrastructure". This because Borg also has a "space stations" and buildings that are not spacecrafts, this is established by several facts: 1. the starfleet armada 2-game has several buildable space stations, on ST movie 8, theres a scan results stating there is 9 billion lifesigns and build infrastructure (giving borg energy structure readings) On episode STV5x16 is also shown a spacestation complex, wich i have taken screenshots (File:Unimatrix_01_02_ST & File:Unimatrix_01_01_ST). Those screenshots would be then added as thumbnails to the article, showing unimatrix style complex buildings that borg use to annex/add more buildings when needed or assimiliated. these structures clearly differ from the ships, as they are stationary. What i suspect (cant verify this) but these structures seem to be a building and or drydock/hangar complexes. On same episode a orb enters a building to dock to it (to deliver 7/9 to borg queen. Theres also several mentions of borg planets (im gonna need a help to linking those episodes) So this is my plans, to add description and mentioning the scan results to that section, thus stating that borg does have star bases and planetary bases/buildings also, and they are not entirely space race. --JHawx 21:36, November 28, 2009 (UTC) :There's a mention of the destruction of the Unicomplex in the history section. Adding a mention to the Spacecraft section would be appropriate. The Armada 2 game references are non-canon and would be formatted as or included in the Apocrypha section. I'm not sure what you're referring to in , as I think the only known fact about the 9 billion Borg on Earth is the changed atmosphere. Setacourse 22:06, November 28, 2009 (UTC) And just after that statement she continues and i quote: "...I'm reading 9 billion lifesigns... ...all borg" that means the scan of surface stated there are resident lifesigns on the planet and knowing how borg assimiliate technology is to directly alter the existing infrastructure = there are borg complexes in the planet, making it borg planet. but its all canon. --JHawx 22:15, November 28, 2009 (UTC) ::Can you put up a sample here of what exactly it is that you intend to add? I still can't make heads or tails of what exactly you are trying to say. You may very well be making an extrapolation that goes beyond what we can do as a canon notation. --OuroborosCobra talk 23:06, November 28, 2009 (UTC) Basicly the first lines would stay the same, i would add a thumbnails as a sample of infrastructure (buildings) below the defined ships (editing only the headline to include also structures), basicly adding to the existing info. Basicly first would be the ships info, describing the space faring vessels, then example of stationary buildings (factories, productive assembly plants (because those assimiliated ships wont turn to cubes by themslfs, theyr torn from ships and scrapped materials adabted to become ships), then give references where the buildings has been seen and give information about borgs having planets aswell and that they are not only in space. --JHawx 01:29, November 29, 2009 (UTC) ::That's not what I asked for. I really want your precise text, the exact language you intend to add, include that about Earth. I can't tell what it is you intend to add right now. Your current explanation isn't helping either. We've never seen anything resembling factories or shipyards, and should not be speaking to them in the article until we do. Please give the exact language you intend to add, so we have an idea what you are even talking about. This has become so disjointed that I cannot tell. --OuroborosCobra talk 01:56, November 29, 2009 (UTC) Yes, there is a shipyard: orb gets inside of the rounded port and is located inside the structure, thats a spacedoc by definition (i can even take a screenshot of that and upload it). And if theres a spacedoc, it can also act as a shipyard. Those cubes wont just appear from nothing, thus they must be constructed, that means they must be formed from materials. Theres also several nonmoving objects buildable in games and in movies. What i am only trying to do, is to add a fact that they have buildings. Currently the information states they got ships... nothing more. Im still woking on the example, as the canon laws makes little difficult to type anything about what you can reason and deduct with fundamental things. The earth reference will be just that, a mention that while scanning earth after the time incursion on movie 8, it showed that there were borg lifesigns and modified habitat showing the planet as borg. Also from previous STV seriers, theres mentioning that there were only few borg planets, indicating they do have also planetary systems. All im trying to archieve is to add a fact to the fact sheet, that borg is not only space faring species, and they do habit planetary systems. Ill add the text ill add, maybe as a separate example page, before applying it to the borg section itself... after i get it finished. --JHawx 12:01, November 29, 2009 (UTC) :::Just because something is a spacedock does not mean it is a shipyard. O'Brien said a few times how DS9 was not a full shipyard(I think ) was one).--31dot 12:57, November 29, 2009 (UTC) errm, arent you mixing spacedock and drydock now? --JHawx 20:41, November 29, 2009 (UTC) p.s. The information has been added to the texts. Its only limited format tho. Instead of changing existing data, i only added info on ship section and added infrastructure section to the guide. ::Ok, the last edit is done, and im happy with the results, not gonna add anything new to it, if theres a thing you wish to add, please do so, but i cant figure anything else i could say about buildings of borg, only that there is bound the be plenty of em but i cannot proof any of it. There may have been borg building destroyed in asteroid belt on episode unimatrix 0, but it was not pointed being borg building, thus i cannot proof it. And by any means, if this discussion on the talks is now useless, please be kind and trunctuate or archive it if neccessary. --JHawx 01:32, November 30, 2009 (UTC) :::Do we have any better pictures of Unimatrix 001? The ones by JHawx, no offense, are just too damn dark and don't really convey anything except some dark red and green spots on the edge.--Obey the Fist!! 18:19, March 3, 2010 (UTC) ::::Good luck with that, i used frame by frame search for the best photo ops that would represent the unimatrix 001. he complex itself is located in some sort of green/black nebulae and the main reason i took these pics were that there was no album photos in the databanks. Where the complex is shown is 4 cutpieces, 1. where the orb enters the area, 2 where it passes buildings. 3. Where orb enters unimatrix to dock and 4th is a random pieces when voyager shuttle starts the battle. Its dark because there is no light in the darn place ^^ --JHawx 05:38, March 4, 2010 (UTC) biology :im not sure about this statement being correct: '' Drones also contained failsafes designed to deactivate and even vaporize their own bodies, thereby allowing the Collective to eliminate damaged or dead drones without leaving remains to be exploited by outsiders. ( )'' :- In the film, the vaporization seems awefully same as the borg teleportation, thus i say that instead of vaporizing the borg, they teleported it back onboard and sended another unit to complete task :- Theres several occasions where 7/9 is damaged and the self protection in any case does not vaporize 7/9. :-the later statement is correct, that the failsafes would return the borg for inspection and defunctional ones to be harvested for bodyparts --JHawx 00:06, December 7, 2009 (UTC). Borg implants When seven is hypnotised bact to the raven in VOY: 'The Raven', her implants reactivate. When they do, they seem to just reappear. How do they do that? It's not as if the tiny Nanoprobes can replicate it that quickly. And also, how does seven keep just 'growing' Nanoprobes? :Talk pages aren't really for general discussion, but maybe they can replicate it that quickly- we do not know how 24th Century alien technology works.--31dot 20:55, February 2, 2010 (UTC)